[PATCH] ACPI: processor_idle: Skip dummy wait for processors based on the Zen microarchitecture
Processors based on the Zen microarchitecture support IOPORT based deeper C-states. The idle driver reads the acpi_gbl_FADT.xpm_timer_block.address in the IOPORT based C-state exit path which is claimed to be a "Dummy wait op" and has been around since ACPI introduction to Linux dating back to Andy Grover's Mar 14, 2002 posting [1]. The comment above the dummy operation was elaborated by Andreas Mohr back in 2006 in commit b488f02156d3d ("ACPI: restore comment justifying 'extra' P_LVLx access") [2] where the commit log claims: "this dummy read was about: STPCLK# doesn't get asserted in time on (some) chipsets, which is why we need to have a dummy I/O read to delay further instruction processing until the CPU is fully stopped."
However, sampling certain workloads with IBS on AMD Zen3 system shows that a significant amount of time is spent in the dummy op, which incorrectly gets accounted as C-State residency. A large C-State residency value can prime the cpuidle governor to recommend a deeper C-State during the subsequent idle instances, starting a vicious cycle, leading to performance degradation on workloads that rapidly switch between busy and idle phases.
One such workload is tbench where a massive performance degradation can be observed during certain runs. Following are some statistics gathered by running tbench with 128 clients, on a dual socket (2 x 64C/128T) Zen3 system with the baseline kernel, baseline kernel keeping C2 disabled, and baseline kernel with this patch applied keeping C2 enabled:
baseline kernel was tip:sched/core at commit f3dd3f674555 ("sched: Remove the limitation of WF_ON_CPU on wakelist if wakee cpu is idle")
Kernel : baseline baseline + C2 disabled baseline + patch
Min (MB/s) : 2215.06 33072.10 (+1393.05%) 33016.10 (+1390.52%) Max (MB/s) : 32938.80 34399.10 34774.50 Median (MB/s) : 32191.80 33476.60 33805.70 AMean (MB/s) : 22448.55 33649.27 (+49.89%) 33865.43 (+50.85%) AMean Stddev : 17526.70 680.14 880.72 AMean CoefVar : 78.07% 2.02% 2.60%
The data shows there are edge cases that can cause massive regressions in case of tbench. Profiling the bad runs with IBS shows a significant amount of time being spent in acpi_idle_do_entry method:
Overhead Command Shared Object Symbol 74.76% swapper [kernel.kallsyms] [k] acpi_idle_do_entry 0.71% tbench [kernel.kallsyms] [k] update_sd_lb_stats.constprop.0 0.69% tbench_srv [kernel.kallsyms] [k] update_sd_lb_stats.constprop.0 0.49% swapper [kernel.kallsyms] [k] psi_group_change ...
Annotation of acpi_idle_do_entry method reveals almost all the time in acpi_idle_do_entry is spent on the port I/O in wait_for_freeze():
0.14 │ in (%dx),%al # <------ First "in" corresponding to inb(cx->address) 0.51 │ mov 0x144d64d(%rip),%rax 0.00 │ test $0x80000000,%eax │ ↓ jne 62 # <------ Skip if running in guest 0.00 │ mov 0x19800c3(%rip),%rdx 99.33 │ in (%dx),%eax # <------ Second "in" corresponding to inl(acpi_gbl_FADT.xpm_timer_block.address) 0.00 │62: mov -0x8(%rbp),%r12 0.00 │ leave 0.00 │ ← ret
This overhead is reflected in the C2 residency on the test system where C2 is an IOPORT based C-State. The total C-state residency reported by "cpupower idle-info" on CPU0 for good and bad case over the 80s tbench run is as follows (all numbers are in microseconds):
Good Run Bad Run (Baseline)
POLL: 43338 6231 (-85.62%) C1 (MWAIT Based): 23576156 363861 (-98.45%) C2 (IOPORT Based): 10781218 77027280 (+614.45%)
The larger residency value in bad case leads to the system recommending C2 state again for subsequent idle instances. The pattern lasts till the end of the tbench run. Following is the breakdown of "entry_method" passed to acpi_idle_do_entry during good run and bad run:
Good Run Bad Run (Baseline)
Number of times acpi_idle_do_entry was called: 6149573 6149050 (-0.01%) |-> Number of times entry_method was "ACPI_CSTATE_FFH": 6141494 88144 (-98.56%) |-> Number of times entry_method was "ACPI_CSTATE_HALT": 0 0 (+0.00%) |-> Number of times entry_method was "ACPI_CSTATE_SYSTEMIO": 8079 6060906 (+74920.49%)
For processors based on the Zen microarchitecture, this dummy wait op is unnecessary and can be skipped when choosing IOPORT based C-States to avoid polluting the C-state residency information.
Link: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/mpe/linux-fullhistory.git/co... [1] Link: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?i... [2]
Suggested-by: Calvin Ong calvin.ong@amd.com Cc: stable@vger.kernel.org Cc: regressions@lists.linux.dev Signed-off-by: K Prateek Nayak kprateek.nayak@amd.com --- drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c | 7 +++++-- 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
diff --git a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c index 16a1663d02d4..18850aa2b79b 100644 --- a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c +++ b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c @@ -528,8 +528,11 @@ static int acpi_idle_bm_check(void) static void wait_for_freeze(void) { #ifdef CONFIG_X86 - /* No delay is needed if we are in guest */ - if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR)) + /* + * No delay is needed if we are in guest or on a processor + * based on the Zen microarchitecture. + */ + if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR) || boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN)) return; #endif /* Dummy wait op - must do something useless after P_LVL2 read
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:06:38PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
diff --git a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c index 16a1663d02d4..18850aa2b79b 100644 --- a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c +++ b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c @@ -528,8 +528,11 @@ static int acpi_idle_bm_check(void) static void wait_for_freeze(void) { #ifdef CONFIG_X86
- /* No delay is needed if we are in guest */
- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR))
- /*
* No delay is needed if we are in guest or on a processor* based on the Zen microarchitecture.*/- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR) || boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN))
s/boot_cpu_has/cpu_feature_enabled/g
while at it.
Hello Boris,
On 9/21/2022 2:17 PM, Borislav Petkov wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:06:38PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
diff --git a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c index 16a1663d02d4..18850aa2b79b 100644 --- a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c +++ b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c @@ -528,8 +528,11 @@ static int acpi_idle_bm_check(void) static void wait_for_freeze(void) { #ifdef CONFIG_X86
- /* No delay is needed if we are in guest */
- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR))
- /*
* No delay is needed if we are in guest or on a processor* based on the Zen microarchitecture.*/- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR) || boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN))
s/boot_cpu_has/cpu_feature_enabled/g
I was not aware of cpu_feature_enabled() and it makes perfect sense to use it here. Thank you for bringing it to my notice. I'll make this change in v2.
while at it.
-- Thanks and Regards, Prateek
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 04:09:16PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
I was not aware of cpu_feature_enabled() and it makes perfect sense to use it here.
It is no difference what the callers use - we simply want to unify the interfaces and not have boot_cpu* and cpu_feature_* and so on. One is enough and we want to use cpu_feature_enabled() everywhere possible.
Thx.
On 9/20/22 23:36, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
- /*
* No delay is needed if we are in guest or on a processor* based on the Zen microarchitecture.*/- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR) || boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN)) return;
In the end, the delay is because of buggy, circa 2006 chipsets? So, we use a CPU vendor specific check to approximate that the chipset is recent and not affected by the bug? If so, is there no better way to check for a newer chipset than this?
Do X86_FEATURE_ZEN CPUs just have unusually painful inl(acpi_fadt.xpm_tmr_blk.address) implementations? Is that why we noticed all of a sudden?
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 07:15:07AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
In the end, the delay is because of buggy, circa 2006 chipsets? So, we use a CPU vendor specific check to approximate that the chipset is recent and not affected by the bug? If so, is there no better way to check for a newer chipset than this?
So I did some git archeology but that particular addition is in some conglomerate, glued-together patch from 2007 which added the cpuidle tree:
commit 4f86d3a8e297205780cca027e974fd5f81064780 Author: Len Brown len.brown@intel.com Date: Wed Oct 3 18:58:00 2007 -0400
cpuidle: consolidate 2.6.22 cpuidle branch into one patch
so the most precise check here should be to limit that dummy read to that Intel chipset which needed it. Damned if I knew how to figure out which...
On 9/21/2022 14:51, Borislav Petkov wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 07:15:07AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
In the end, the delay is because of buggy, circa 2006 chipsets? So, we use a CPU vendor specific check to approximate that the chipset is recent and not affected by the bug? If so, is there no better way to check for a newer chipset than this?
So I did some git archeology but that particular addition is in some conglomerate, glued-together patch from 2007 which added the cpuidle tree:
commit 4f86d3a8e297205780cca027e974fd5f81064780 Author: Len Brown len.brown@intel.com Date: Wed Oct 3 18:58:00 2007 -0400
cpuidle: consolidate 2.6.22 cpuidle branch into one patchso the most precise check here should be to limit that dummy read to that Intel chipset which needed it. Damned if I knew how to figure out which...
Functionally most Intel platforms use intel_idle though these days though, right?
On 22-09-2022 01:21 am, Borislav Petkov wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 07:15:07AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
In the end, the delay is because of buggy, circa 2006 chipsets? So, we use a CPU vendor specific check to approximate that the chipset is recent and not affected by the bug? If so, is there no better way to check for a newer chipset than this?
So I did some git archeology but that particular addition is in some conglomerate, glued-together patch from 2007 which added the cpuidle tree:
commit 4f86d3a8e297205780cca027e974fd5f81064780 Author: Len Brown len.brown@intel.com Date: Wed Oct 3 18:58:00 2007 -0400
cpuidle: consolidate 2.6.22 cpuidle branch into one patch
In fact, the code has moved around a fair bit and the check in its initial form goes as far back as ACPI's posting for inclusion in the kernel in March 2002 [1]. We could not find any way of digging further back, yet.
Prior to that, I think the ACPI enablement code was being released independent of the kernel per https://kernel.org/doc/ols/2004/ols2004v1-pages-121-132.pdf and was included in Andrew's mm tree for a while.
From https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/history/history.git the first tag that contains code with the dummy read is v2.5.7 AFAICS.
Ananth
[1] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/mpe/linux-fullhistory.git/co...
Hello Dave,
On 9/21/2022 7:45 PM, Dave Hansen wrote:
On 9/20/22 23:36, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
- /*
* No delay is needed if we are in guest or on a processor* based on the Zen microarchitecture.*/- if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR) || boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN)) return;
In the end, the delay is because of buggy, circa 2006 chipsets? So, we use a CPU vendor specific check to approximate that the chipset is recent and not affected by the bug? If so, is there no better way to check for a newer chipset than this?
Elsewhere in the thread, people have noted that the faulty chipsets seem to go all the way back to pre-2002. Andreas's comment was added in 2006 but we have no way of knowing if it is limited only to chipsets prior to 2006. If anyone can confirm a clean cut-off point when this was no longer required, perhaps we can limit this dummy wait to the older chipsets by annotating them with a X86_BUG_STPCLK quirk.
Do X86_FEATURE_ZEN CPUs just have unusually painful inl(acpi_fadt.xpm_tmr_blk.address) implementations?
Yes. The issue becomes more pronounced with increased core counts when many cores exit from C2 simultaneously. The core density is especially high on X86_FEATURE_ZEN chipsets, none of which require a dummy wait op to ensure correct behavior. Hence, we used the feature check to skip it.
Is that why we noticed all of a sudden?
We saw run-to-run variance in tbench with 128 clients as a part of our scheduler regression runs. Originally we attributed it to the tbench threads not being spread around uniformly, but the problem persisted even when we ensured that the initial task placement spreads them out. Further analysis showed that significant time was spent in exit from C2 in the bad runs.
-- Thanks and Regards, Prateek
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 05:00:35PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:06:38PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Processors based on the Zen microarchitecture support IOPORT based deeper C-states.
I've just gotta ask; why the heck are you using IO port based idle states in 2022 ?!?! You have have MWAIT, right?
They have both. And both is Intel technology. And as I'm sure you know AMD can't do their own thing - they kinda have to follow Intel. Unfortunately.
Are you saying modern Intel chipsets don't do IO-based C-states anymore?
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 09:48:13PM +0200, Borislav Petkov wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 05:00:35PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:06:38PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Processors based on the Zen microarchitecture support IOPORT based deeper C-states.
I've just gotta ask; why the heck are you using IO port based idle states in 2022 ?!?! You have have MWAIT, right?
They have both. And both is Intel technology. And as I'm sure you know AMD can't do their own thing - they kinda have to follow Intel. Unfortunately.
Are you saying modern Intel chipsets don't do IO-based C-states anymore?
I've no idea what they do, but Linux exclusively uses MWAIT on Intel as per intel_idle.c.
MWAIT also cuts down on IPIs because it wakes from the TIF write.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 10:17 AM Peter Zijlstra peterz@infradead.org wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 09:48:13PM +0200, Borislav Petkov wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 05:00:35PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:06:38PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Processors based on the Zen microarchitecture support IOPORT based deeper C-states.
I've just gotta ask; why the heck are you using IO port based idle states in 2022 ?!?! You have have MWAIT, right?
They have both. And both is Intel technology. And as I'm sure you know AMD can't do their own thing - they kinda have to follow Intel. Unfortunately.
Are you saying modern Intel chipsets don't do IO-based C-states anymore?
I've no idea what they do, but Linux exclusively uses MWAIT on Intel as per intel_idle.c.
Well, it can be forced to use ACPI idle instead.
MWAIT also cuts down on IPIs because it wakes from the TIF write.
Right.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 05:21:21PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
Well, it can be forced to use ACPI idle instead.
Yeah, I did that earlier. The dummy IO read in question costs ~3K on average on my Coffeelake box here.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 5:36 PM Borislav Petkov bp@alien8.de wrote:
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 05:21:21PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
Well, it can be forced to use ACPI idle instead.
Yeah, I did that earlier. The dummy IO read in question costs ~3K on average on my Coffeelake box here.
Well, that's the cost of forcing something non-default.
On 9/22/22 08:53, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 5:36 PM Borislav Petkov bp@alien8.de wrote:
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 05:21:21PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
Well, it can be forced to use ACPI idle instead.
Yeah, I did that earlier. The dummy IO read in question costs ~3K on average on my Coffeelake box here.
Well, that's the cost of forcing something non-default.
Just to be clear: The _original_ AMD Zen problem that this thread is addressing is from a *default* configuration, right? It isn't that someone overrode the idle defaults?
Hello Dave,
On 9/22/2022 10:14 PM, Dave Hansen wrote:
On 9/20/22 23:36, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Cc: stable@vger.kernel.org Cc: regressions@lists.linux.dev
*Is* this a regression?
On second thought, it is not a regression. Will remove the tag on v2. -- Thanks and Regards, Prateek
On 9/22/22 09:54, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
On 9/22/2022 10:14 PM, Dave Hansen wrote:
On 9/20/22 23:36, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Cc: stable@vger.kernel.org Cc: regressions@lists.linux.dev
*Is* this a regression?
On second thought, it is not a regression. Will remove the tag on v2.
What were you planning for v2?
Rafael suggested something like the attached patch. It's not nearly as fragile as the Zen check you proposed earlier.
Any testing or corrections on the commentary would be appreciated.
[Public]
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Hansen dave.hansen@intel.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 12:02 To: Nayak, K Prateek KPrateek.Nayak@amd.com; linux- kernel@vger.kernel.org Cc: rafael@kernel.org; lenb@kernel.org; linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org; linux- pm@vger.kernel.org; dave.hansen@linux.intel.com; bp@alien8.de; tglx@linutronix.de; andi@lisas.de; puwen@hygon.cn; Limonciello, Mario Mario.Limonciello@amd.com; peterz@infradead.org; rui.zhang@intel.com; gpiccoli@igalia.com; daniel.lezcano@linaro.org; Narayan, Ananth Ananth.Narayan@amd.com; Shenoy, Gautham Ranjal gautham.shenoy@amd.com; Ong, Calvin Calvin.Ong@amd.com; stable@vger.kernel.org; regressions@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH] ACPI: processor_idle: Skip dummy wait for processors based on the Zen microarchitecture
On 9/22/22 09:54, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
On 9/22/2022 10:14 PM, Dave Hansen wrote:
On 9/20/22 23:36, K Prateek Nayak wrote:
Cc: stable@vger.kernel.org Cc: regressions@lists.linux.dev
*Is* this a regression?
On second thought, it is not a regression. Will remove the tag on v2.
What were you planning for v2?
Rafael suggested something like the attached patch. It's not nearly as fragile as the Zen check you proposed earlier.
Any testing or corrections on the commentary would be appreciated.
This seems reasonable to me. Appreciate the suggestion.
Some small nits: 1) You reference inb() specifically in the commit message, but the code that is skipped is actually inl().
2) The title says to limit it to old intel systems, but nothing about this actually enforces that. It actually is limited to all Intel systems, but effectively won't be used on anything but new ones because of intel_idle.
As an idea for #2 you could check for CONFIG_INTEL_IDLE in the Intel case and if it's not defined show a pr_notice_once() type of message trying to tell people to use Intel Idle instead for better performance.
On 9/22/22 10:48, Limonciello, Mario wrote:
- The title says to limit it to old intel systems, but nothing about this actually enforces that.
It actually is limited to all Intel systems, but effectively won't be used on anything but new ones because of intel_idle.
As an idea for #2 you could check for CONFIG_INTEL_IDLE in the Intel case and if it's not defined show a pr_notice_once() type of message trying to tell people to use Intel Idle instead for better performance.
What does that have to do with *this* patch, though?
If you've got CONFIG_INTEL_IDLE disabled, you'll be slow before this patch. You'll also be slow after this patch. It's entirely orthogonal.
I can add a "Practically" to the subject so folks don't confuse it with some hard limit that is being enforced:
ACPI: processor idle: Practically limit "Dummy wait" workaround to old Intel systems
BTW, is there seriously a strong technical reason that AMD systems are still using this code? Or is it pure inertia?
[Public]
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Hansen dave.hansen@intel.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 13:18 To: Limonciello, Mario Mario.Limonciello@amd.com; Nayak, K Prateek KPrateek.Nayak@amd.com; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Cc: rafael@kernel.org; lenb@kernel.org; linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org; linux- pm@vger.kernel.org; dave.hansen@linux.intel.com; bp@alien8.de; tglx@linutronix.de; andi@lisas.de; puwen@hygon.cn; peterz@infradead.org; rui.zhang@intel.com; gpiccoli@igalia.com; daniel.lezcano@linaro.org; Narayan, Ananth Ananth.Narayan@amd.com; Shenoy, Gautham Ranjal gautham.shenoy@amd.com; Ong, Calvin Calvin.Ong@amd.com; stable@vger.kernel.org; regressions@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH] ACPI: processor_idle: Skip dummy wait for processors based on the Zen microarchitecture
On 9/22/22 10:48, Limonciello, Mario wrote:
- The title says to limit it to old intel systems, but nothing about this
actually enforces that.
It actually is limited to all Intel systems, but effectively won't be used on
anything but new
ones because of intel_idle.
As an idea for #2 you could check for CONFIG_INTEL_IDLE in the Intel case
and
if it's not defined show a pr_notice_once() type of message trying to tell
people to use
Intel Idle instead for better performance.
What does that have to do with *this* patch, though?
It was just a thought triggered by your commit message title.
If you've got CONFIG_INTEL_IDLE disabled, you'll be slow before this patch. You'll also be slow after this patch. It's entirely orthogonal.
Yeah it's orthogonal, but with this discussion happening and the code is changing /anyway/ then a pr_notice_once() seemed like a nice way to guide people towards intel_idle at the same time so they didn't trip into the same problem AMD systems do today.
I can add a "Practically" to the subject so folks don't confuse it with some hard limit that is being enforced:
ACPI: processor idle: Practically limit "Dummy wait" workaround to old Intel systems
That works.
BTW, is there seriously a strong technical reason that AMD systems are still using this code? Or is it pure inertia?
Maybe a better question for Ananth and Prateek to comment on.
On 22-09-2022 11:58 pm, Limonciello, Mario wrote:
BTW, is there seriously a strong technical reason that AMD systems are still using this code? Or is it pure inertia?
Maybe a better question for Ananth and Prateek to comment on.
We have evaluated using MWAIT for C2 entry and feel that there are good micro architectural reasons to stick to IOPORT based transitions for now.
Regards, Ananth
Hi,
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 10:01:46AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
diff --git a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c index 16a1663d02d4..9f40917c49ef 100644 --- a/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c +++ b/drivers/acpi/processor_idle.c @@ -531,10 +531,27 @@ static void wait_for_freeze(void) /* No delay is needed if we are in guest */ if (boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_HYPERVISOR)) return;
- /*
* Modern (>=Nehalem) Intel systems use ACPI via intel_idle,* not this code. Assume that any Intel systems using this* are ancient and may need the dummy wait. This also assumes* that the motivating chipset issue was Intel-only.*/- if (boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor != X86_VENDOR_INTEL)
return;#endif
- /* Dummy wait op - must do something useless after P_LVL2 read
because chipsets cannot guarantee that STPCLK# signalgets asserted in time to freeze execution properly. */
16 years ago, I did my testing on a VIA 8233/8235 chipset (AMD Athlon/Duron) system...... (plus reading VIA spec PDFs which mentioned "STPCLK#" etc.).
AFAIR I was doing kernel profiling (via oprofile, IIRC) for painful performance hotspots (read: I/O accesses etc.), and this was one resulting place which I stumbled over. And if I'm not completely mistaken, that dummy wait I/O op *was* needed (else "nice" effects) on my system (put loud and clear: *non*-Intel).
So one can see where my profiling effort went (*optimizing* things, not degrading them) --> hints that current Zen3-originating effort is not about a regression in the "regression bug" sense - merely a (albeit rather appreciable/sizeable... congrats!) performance deterioration vs. an optimal (currently non-achieved) software implementation state (also: of PORT-based handling [vs. MWAIT], mind you!).
I still have that VIA hardware, but inactive (had the oh-so-usual capacitors issue :( ).
Sorry for sabotaging your current fix efforts ;-) - but thank you very much for your work/discussion in this very central/hotpath area! (this extends to all of you...)
Greetings
Andreas Mohr
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 09:42:15PM +0200, Andreas Mohr wrote:
So one can see where my profiling effort went (*optimizing* things, not degrading them) --> hints that current Zen3-originating effort is not about a regression in the "regression bug" sense - merely a (albeit rather appreciable/sizeable... congrats!) performance deterioration vs. an optimal (currently non-achieved) software implementation state (also: of PORT-based handling [vs. MWAIT], mind you!).
I'd like to add a word of caution here:
AFAIK power management (here: ACPI Cx) handling generally is about a painful *tradeoff* between achieving best-possible performance (that's the respectable Zen3 32MB/s vs. 33MB/s argument) and achieving maximum power savings. We all know that one can configure the system for non-idle mode (idle=poll cmdline?) and achieve record numbers in performance (...*and* power consumption - ouch!).
Current decision/implementation aspects AFAICS: - why is the Zen3 config used here choosing less-favourable(?) PORT-based operation mode? - Zen3 is said to not have the STPCLK# issue (- but then what about other more modern chipsets?)
--> we need to achieve (hopefully sufficiently precisely) a solution which takes into account Zen3 STPCLK# improvements while preserving "accepted" behaviour/requirements on *all* STPCLK#-hampered chipsets ("STPCLK# I/O wait is default/traditional handling"?).
Greetings
Andreas Mohr
On 9/22/22 13:10, Andreas Mohr wrote:
(- but then what about other more modern chipsets?)
--> we need to achieve (hopefully sufficiently precisely) a solution which takes into account Zen3 STPCLK# improvements while preserving "accepted" behaviour/requirements on *all* STPCLK#-hampered chipsets ("STPCLK# I/O wait is default/traditional handling"?).
Ideally, sure. But, we're talking about theoretically regressing the idle behavior of some indeterminate set of old systems, the majority of which are sitting in a puddle of capacitor goo at the bottom of a landfill right now. This is far from an ideal situation.
FWIW, I'd much rather do something like
if ((boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor == X86_VENDOR_AMD) && (boot_cpu_data.x86_model >= 0xF)) return;
inl(slow_whatever);
than a Zen check. AMD has, as far as I know, been a lot more sequential and sane about model numbers than Intel, and there are some AMD model number range checks in the codebase today.
A check like this would also be _relatively_ future-proof in the case that X86_FEATURE_ZEN stops getting set on future AMD CPUs. That's a lot more likely than AMD going and reusing a <0xF model.
[Public]
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Hansen dave.hansen@intel.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 16:22 To: Andreas Mohr andi@lisas.de Cc: Nayak, K Prateek KPrateek.Nayak@amd.com; linux- kernel@vger.kernel.org; rafael@kernel.org; lenb@kernel.org; linux- acpi@vger.kernel.org; linux-pm@vger.kernel.org; dave.hansen@linux.intel.com; bp@alien8.de; tglx@linutronix.de; puwen@hygon.cn; Limonciello, Mario Mario.Limonciello@amd.com; peterz@infradead.org; rui.zhang@intel.com; gpiccoli@igalia.com; daniel.lezcano@linaro.org; Narayan, Ananth Ananth.Narayan@amd.com; Shenoy, Gautham Ranjal gautham.shenoy@amd.com; Ong, Calvin Calvin.Ong@amd.com; stable@vger.kernel.org; regressions@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH] ACPI: processor_idle: Skip dummy wait for processors based on the Zen microarchitecture
On 9/22/22 13:10, Andreas Mohr wrote:
(- but then what about other more modern chipsets?)
--> we need to achieve (hopefully sufficiently precisely) a solution which takes into account Zen3 STPCLK# improvements while preserving "accepted" behaviour/requirements on *all* STPCLK#-
hampered chipsets
("STPCLK# I/O wait is default/traditional handling"?).
Ideally, sure. But, we're talking about theoretically regressing the idle behavior of some indeterminate set of old systems, the majority of which are sitting in a puddle of capacitor goo at the bottom of a landfill right now. This is far from an ideal situation.
FWIW, I'd much rather do something like
if ((boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor == X86_VENDOR_AMD) && (boot_cpu_data.x86_model >= 0xF)) return;
inl(slow_whatever);
than a Zen check. AMD has, as far as I know, been a lot more sequential and sane about model numbers than Intel, and there are some AMD model number range checks in the codebase today.
A check like this would also be _relatively_ future-proof in the case that X86_FEATURE_ZEN stops getting set on future AMD CPUs. That's a lot more likely than AMD going and reusing a <0xF model.
If you're going to use a family check instead it should be 0x17 or newer. (c->x86 >= 0x17)
That does match what's used to set X86_FEATURE_ZEN at least then right now too.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 02:21:31PM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
On 9/22/22 13:10, Andreas Mohr wrote:
(- but then what about other more modern chipsets?)
--> we need to achieve (hopefully sufficiently precisely) a solution which takes into account Zen3 STPCLK# improvements while preserving "accepted" behaviour/requirements on *all* STPCLK#-hampered chipsets ("STPCLK# I/O wait is default/traditional handling"?).
Ideally, sure. But, we're talking about theoretically regressing the idle behavior of some indeterminate set of old systems, the majority of which are sitting in a puddle of capacitor goo at the bottom of a landfill right now. This is far from an ideal situation.
FWIW, I'd much rather do something like
if ((boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor == X86_VENDOR_AMD) && (boot_cpu_data.x86_model >= 0xF)) return;
inl(slow_whatever);
than a Zen check. AMD has, as far as I know, been a lot more sequential and sane about model numbers than Intel, and there are some AMD model number range checks in the codebase today.
A check like this would also be _relatively_ future-proof in the case that X86_FEATURE_ZEN stops getting set on future AMD CPUs. That's a lot more likely than AMD going and reusing a <0xF model.
Except you need to add VENDOR_HYGON at the very least. All of this turns into a trainwreck real quick.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 02:21:31PM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote:
FWIW, I'd much rather do something like
if ((boot_cpu_data.x86_vendor == X86_VENDOR_AMD) && (boot_cpu_data.x86_model >= 0xF)) return;
inl(slow_whatever);
than a Zen check. AMD has, as far as I know, been a lot more sequential and sane about model numbers than Intel, and there are some AMD model number range checks in the codebase today.
Some might be broken; apparently their SoC/Entertainment divisions has a few out of order SKUs that were not listed in their regular documents. (yay interweb)
I ran into this when I tried doing a Zen2 range check for retbleed. In the end we ended up using the availablility of STIBP as a heuristic to indentify Zen2+ or something.
linux-stable-mirror@lists.linaro.org
-
Ananth Narayan -
Andreas Mohr -
Borislav Petkov -
Dave Hansen -
K Prateek Nayak -
Limonciello, Mario -
Limonciello, Mario
-
Peter Zijlstra -
Rafael J. Wysocki