Andrii Nakryiko andrii.nakryiko@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 AM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen toke@redhat.com wrote:
Andrii Nakryiko andrii.nakryiko@gmail.com writes:
On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Alexei Starovoitov alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 12:38:06AM +0530, Kumar Kartikeya Dwivedi wrote:
On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 12:02:14AM IST, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:27 AM Kumar Kartikeya Dwivedi memxor@gmail.com wrote: > [...]
All of these things are messy because of tc legacy. bpf tried to follow tc style with cls and act distinction and it didn't quite work. cls with direct-action is the only thing that became mainstream while tc style attach wasn't really addressed. There were several incidents where tc had tens of thousands of progs attached because of this attach/query/index weirdness described above. I think the only way to address this properly is to introduce bpf_link style of attaching to tc. Such bpf_link would support ingress/egress only. direction-action will be implied. There won't be any index and query will be obvious.
Note that we already have bpf_link support working (without support for pinning ofcourse) in a limited way. The ifindex, protocol, parent_id, priority, handle, chain_index tuple uniquely identifies a filter, so we stash this in the bpf_link and are able to operate on the exact filter during release.
Except they're not unique. The library can stash them, but something else doing detach via iproute2 or their own netlink calls will detach the prog. This other app can attach to the same spot a different prog and now bpf_link__destroy will be detaching somebody else prog.
So I would like to propose to take this patch set a step further from what Daniel said: int bpf_tc_attach(prog_fd, ifindex, {INGRESS,EGRESS}): and make this proposed api to return FD. To detach from tc ingress/egress just close(fd).
You mean adding an fd-based TC API to the kernel?
yes.
I'm totally for bpf_link-based TC attachment.
But I think *also* having "legacy" netlink-based APIs will allow applications to handle older kernels in a much nicer way without extra dependency on iproute2. We have a similar situation with kprobe, where currently libbpf only supports "modern" fd-based attachment, but users periodically ask questions and struggle to figure out issues on older kernels that don't support new APIs.
+1; I am OK with adding a new bpf_link-based way to attach TC programs, but we still need to support the netlink API in libbpf.
So I think we'd have to support legacy TC APIs, but I agree with Alexei and Daniel that we should keep it to the simplest and most straightforward API of supporting direction-action attachments and setting up qdisc transparently (if I'm getting all the terminology right, after reading Quentin's blog post). That coincidentally should probably match how bpf_link-based TC API will look like, so all that can be abstracted behind a single bpf_link__attach_tc() API as well, right? That's the plan for dealing with kprobe right now, btw. Libbpf will detect the best available API and transparently fall back (maybe with some warning for awareness, due to inherent downsides of legacy APIs: no auto-cleanup being the most prominent one).
Yup, SGTM: Expose both in the low-level API (in bpf.c), and make the high-level API auto-detect. That way users can also still use the netlink attach function if they don't want the fd-based auto-close behaviour of bpf_link.
So I thought a bit more about this, and it feels like the right move would be to expose only higher-level TC BPF API behind bpf_link. It will keep the API complexity and amount of APIs that libbpf will have to support to the minimum, and will keep the API itself simple: direct-attach with the minimum amount of input arguments. By not exposing low-level APIs we also table the whole bpf_tc_cls_attach_id design discussion, as we now can keep as much info as needed inside bpf_link_tc (which will embed bpf_link internally as well) to support detachment and possibly some additional querying, if needed.
But then there would be no way for the caller to explicitly select a mechanism? I.e., if I write a BPF program using this mechanism targeting a 5.12 kernel, I'll get netlink attachment, which can stick around when I do bpf_link__disconnect(). But then if the kernel gets upgraded to support bpf_link for TC programs I'll suddenly transparently get bpf_link and the attachments will go away unless I pin them. This seems... less than ideal?
If we expose the low-level API I can elect to just use this if I know I want netlink behaviour, but if bpf_program__attach_tc() is the only API available it would at least need a flag to enforce one mode or the other (I can see someone wanting to enforce kernel bpf_link semantics as well, so a flag for either mode seems reasonable?).
-Toke