boot-architecture

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3 participants
664 discussions

by Grant Likely

Hi folks, Weekly EBBR meeting starts in about 1/2 hour. Dial in details below. Once again the agenda is very short, but I'll open it up to other topics after action item review. I think there was some interest in talking about DT overlay handling. Notes are being captured in the following Google doc. I would greatly appreciate help with taking meeting minutes. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RdlFp5SIrvjcVOGoGEFVYDsqTqFBJHugbBMV5Mu… Agenda: 1) Action item review 2) Any other business Cheers, g. Time: Every Thursday at 16:30-17:30 BST (8:30 PDT, 23:30 CST) Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# --- Join online meeting https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK Trouble Joining? Try Skype Web App https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK?sl=1 Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# Find a local number https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 4664465 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 6 months

EBBR Weekly - Notes 12 Apr 2018

by Grant Likely

*Notes from last week's meeting:Attendees: - Alex Graf (SUSE)- Ryan Harkin (Linaro)- Rob Herring (Linaro)- Udit Kumar (NXP)- Grant Likely (Arm)- Leif Lindholm (Linaro)- Bill Mills (TI)- Tom Rini- Peter Robinson (Redhat)- Michal Simek (Xilinx)- Daniel Thompson (Linaro)- Dong Wei (Arm)Agenda: - Action item review- [Grant] publish GitHub repo with EBBR text in reStructuredText markup- [Dong] Get Arm legal approval to relicense and publish EBBR- Other business- HW IP SharingAction ItemsDateOwnerAction12-Apr-2018Grant & DongGet Arm legal approval to relicense and publish EBBR19/04/2018: Approval in process, hope to have answer by next week12-Apr-2018GrantPublish GitHub repo with EBBR text in reStructuredText markup19/04/2018: Repo is created, but cannot publish yet19-Apr-2018*new*BillWrite recommended policy for sharing HW between firmware and OS19-Apr-2018*new*LeifDocument specification text for platforms which do not support persistent variables, or do not support runtime {Get,Set}Variable() NotesAction item review - Relicensing of EBBR by ARM- Internal support is there, Grant is writing draft of legal texts- “Should be done by next week” - ;-)- Github repo with current EBBR text in reStructuredText- 50% complete- Repo is created and ready to roll but won’t hit github until it is approved by Arm legal- Expect to use github wiki, issue tracker, etc. At least for the short term.AOB - HW IP Sharing of peripherals between OS and firmware- eMMC is a good example, I2C can be another in some cases- Can EBBR help solve this issue?- Grant: One answer could be: For any of these platforms a piece of hardware should have only one master. If it is described in DT then OS has implicit permission to use and abuse it.- Grant: EBBR should not dictate having anything resident in the same exception level as the OS.- Udit: Seeking agreement that there are some devices that need to be shared. EFI runtime variables is an especially important case for EBBR- Bill: Base case is to agree with Grant… but… firmware can expose services to allow a virtual device in Linux to access features- Peter: Raspberry Pi has GPIO and ??? that is managed by the video controller, accessed from kernel by a mailbox mechanism- Peter: Arm has just released a new h/ware standard/recommendation to try and solve some of these problems- Grant: What is scope of EBBR? Allows distros to support embedded boards without cute embedded nonsense hacks. General device sharing is not in scope.- Daniel: Agree with above… except for EFI runtime variables which we would (or may) like EBBR to be able to rely on.- Grant: Try to solve this in a wider space (UEFI forum) and then EBBR can inherit the solution. - Bill: EFI runtime variables are easy if you have specific hardware that is uniquely owned by firmware (NOR flash, etc).- What are actions arising from this?- Ok not to have general solution- Action Bill Mills: Document “something” about EFI variables for EBBR spec- Leif (reluctantly) will look after take this to EFI forum (but not ready to go to forum yet)- Device tree overlays- No common method of handling device tree overlays- Peter: Alex G. and I discussed heavily at connect. Some interest in solving this within grub since no need to push things down into TianoCore/EDK2 and u-boot.- Alex: Have logic in firmware that can enumerate “Hat”s and create EFI object for them. These objects could then be backed by DTBOs - either by grabbing them from the device (EEPROM) or by a stored blob in firmware. Grub for example could then also be taught about these objects and DTBO support, so an OS could store its own overlays. EDK2 has the hat logic support today and already does create objects.- Bill: FIT handles this problem today… but also bundles in lots of other features. Not clear how distros feel about this.- Tom: Let’s focus on what EBBR dictates first!- Grant: Would like DT update to be part of EBBR but its not clear whether overlay should be in scope at all.- Q: Where do we look to find out what UEFI features u-boot supports today (Bill)- Alex: No exhaustive list of present or absent features is available. To find what is missing “all” we need to is run the SCT (self certification test) but u-boot isn’t quite capable of running that quite yet (uefi shell, a prereq, is nearly there)- Grant: What is list of platforms that are “good” for playing with EFI features. RPi?- Alex: qemu is in good condition but many other choices- Runtime variables- Daniel: If EBBR recommends no runtime variable then EBBR must recommend a protocol for distros to adopt- Grant: EBBR will never recommend no runtime variables… but it might allow it- Daniel: Agree… but even allowing forces EBBR to recommend alternative- Action (Leif, also reluctantly): Make this a bug and provide a recommendation* On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 3:59 PM, Grant Likely <grant.likely(a)arm.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > Weekly EBBR meeting starts in about 1/2 hour. Dial in details below. > Once again the agenda is very short, but I'll open it up to other topics > after action item review. I think there was some interest in talking > about DT overlay handling. > > Notes are being captured in the following Google doc. I would greatly > appreciate help with taking meeting minutes. > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RdlFp5SIrvjcVOGoGEFVYDsq > TqFBJHugbBMV5MuXUhw/edit?usp=sharing > > Agenda: > 1) Action item review > 2) Any other business > > Cheers, > g. >

7 years, 6 months

EBBR Weekly - Agenda 26 Apr 2018

by Grant Likely

Hi folks, Next EBBR meeting is later today. Here is the agenda I have so far. Please reply with action item status updates or other business Agenda for this week's meeting: - Status updates and action item review - Behaviour without persistant variables - DTB update policy/behaviour - Any other business As always, this Google doc will be used to capture notes. Please help filling it in. You may need to request edit access if I haven't already added you. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RdlFp5SIrvjcVOGoGEFVYDsqTqFBJHugbBMV5Mu… --- Every Thursday at 16:30 UTC/BST, 8:30 PST/PDT, 00:30 CST (following UTC/BST daylight savings time shifts) Online meeting: https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK Skype Web App: https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK?sl=1 Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# Find a local number: https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 4664465 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 6 months

Notes from 12 April 2018 EBBR meeting

by Grant Likely

Here are the notes from yesterday’s meeting. Props to Daniel Thompson for taking notes! Note: I didn’t capture the full list of attendees. If you were there, but aren’t in the list then let me know so I can add you to the official list. Eventually I’ll post these notes on a wiki for the project. 12 April 2018 Attendees - Grant Likely (Arm) - Ryan Harken (Linaro) - Ruchika Gupta (NXP) - Tom Rini (Konsulko) - Peter Robinson (Red Hat) - Alex Graf (SUSE) - Daniel Thompson (Linaro) - Ben Eckermann (Incomplete list; Did not get full list of dial ins) Agenda: - Status and action item updates - Other business Notes: Status - No progress on legal issues to get things shared for outside contributions - No progress on converting EBBR to sphinx document Devicetree - Committee meeting will shrink scope to cover governanceissues (process, release process, etc). - Will be starting a regular technical sync up call soon AOB - EBBR and different architectures - Alexander Graf has started talking among u-boot team about extending linuxefi support more widely - Udit K: What to do about architectures that are not yet in UEFI? # Grant: Not really in scope for EBBR, they should work with UEFI forum - Grant: EBBR should be opt in (i.e. architecture representatives join us) rather then encompassing “everything” - Udit K: What about big endian? - Grant: Not UEFI… it merely looks like it. - Tom: EBBR references other specifications, needs other specifications to take big endian before we move on it - Udit K: How to handle devicetree updates? - Grant: DT owned by platform is important, not discussed how to update it - Grant: Should we create a DT specific section in EBBR? - Udit K: Ideally, yes. We understand devicetree is owned by the platform but we have had better results using the devicetree in the kernel - Peter: UEFI capsules? - Alexander: Could use overlays to cope with difference between kernels - Alexander: We cannot assume DTs will always be backwards compatible - Grant: Historically have worked to ensure new kernels work with old devicetrees but not old kernels with new DTs - Need to make sure firmware can always be recovered to a ‘safe’ state, and that DT updates don’t require reflashing the entire firmware. Action: form sub team to draft DT update requirements. When can others contribute? - Expect to get things tidied up this week but the mailing list is open please discuss things here! IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 7 months

EBBR weekly meeting in a few minutes

by Grant Likely

Hi folks, Weekly EBBR meeting starts in a few minutes. I'm expecting this one to be short. I've only got action item updates on the agenda, but Dong is still away and I haven't got a skeleton project posted yet. However, I'll open it up to other items that any of you want to discuss. Cheers, g. Time: Every Thursday at 16:30-17:30 BST (8:30 PDT, 23:30 CST) Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK --- Join online meeting https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK Trouble Joining? Try Skype Web App https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK?sl=1 Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# Find a local number https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 4664465 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ boot-architecture mailing list boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org https://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/boot-architecture IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 7 months

EBBR weekly meeting details (Every Thursday)

by Grant Likely

Time: Every Thursday at 16:30-17:30 BST (8:30 PDT, 23:30 CST) Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK This is a weekly status call for the EBBR drafting process that came out of a discussion at Linaro Connect HKG18 in March this year. As mentioned in the notes[1] from that meeting, there is a desire to have EBBR published in time for it to be used by an upcoming 96Boards specification, due to be released in about 6 months time. This meeting is a regular status update to track progress on EBBR development. I will endeavour to keep it short when there isn’t much to discuss. I expect initially there will be a lot to discuss to get the ball rolling, and then will taper off. Anyone is welcome to join. Feel free to pass this invitation along. Let me know if anyone has trouble dialling/connecting to the SfB bridge. [1] https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/boot-architecture/2018-April/000419.html --- Join online meeting https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK Trouble Joining? Try Skype Web App https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/YBY93TIK?sl=1 Join by Phone +44 2033215213,, 4664465# Find a local number https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 4664465 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 7 months

Canceled: EBBR Kickoff Meeting

by Grant Likely

This is a follow-up from the EBBR discussion that happened at Linaro Connect 2 weeks ago. As mentioned in the notes[1] from that meeting, there is a desire to have EBBR published in time for it to be used by an upcoming 96Boards specification, due to be released in about 6 months time. This meeting is a regular status update to track progress on EBBR development. I will endeavour to keep it short when there isn’t much to discuss. I expect initially there will be a lot to discuss to get the ball rolling. Anyone is welcome to join. Feel free to pass this invitation along. Let me know if anyone has trouble dialling/connecting to the SfB bridge. Time: Every Thursday at 16:30-17:30 BST (8:30 PDT, 23:30 CST) [1] https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/boot-architecture/2018-April/000419.html g. ......................................................................................................................................... Join online meeting https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/Q77FJZY5 Join by Phone +442033215213 (Dial-in Number) English (United Kingdom) Find a local number https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 22233117 Forgot your dial-in PIN? https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 ......................................................................................................................................... IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 7 months

Canceled: EBBR Kickoff Meeting

by Grant Likely

7 years, 7 months

EBBR Kickoff Meeting

by Grant Likely

This is a followup from the EBBR discussion that happened at Linaro Connect 2 weeks ago. As mentioned in the notes[1] from that meeting, there is a desire to have EBBR published in time for it to be used by an upcoming 96Boards specification, due to be released in about 6 months time. This meeting is a regular status update to track progress on EBBR development. I will endeavour to keep it short when there isn’t much to discuss. I expect initially there will be a lot to discuss to get the ball rolling. Anyone is welcome to join. Feel free to pass this invitation along. Let me know if anyone has trouble dialing/connecting to the SfB bridge. [1] was posted to boot-architecture(a)lists.linaro.org<mailto:boot-architecture@lists.linaro.org>, but hasn’t shown up in the archive yet. I’ll get that sorted out so that there is a public copy. g. ......................................................................................................................................... Join online meeting https://meet.lync.com/armh/grant.likely/Q77FJZY5 Join by Phone +442033215213 (Dial-in Number) English (United Kingdom) Find a local number https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 Conference ID: 22233117 Forgot your dial-in PIN? https://dialin.lync.com/7bdb65cd-97d0-44fe-bc03-bf8072eadc33 ......................................................................................................................................... IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

7 years, 7 months

Resend: Next steps for EBBR

by Grant Likely

I'm resending these notes to the list because the boot-architecture list rejected it the first time around. Resending so it appears in the archive. g. --- Hi folks, At Linaro Connect in Hong Kong this week there has been some EBBR (Embedded Base Boot Requirements) discussions. One of the interesting angles that came up is that the 96Boards project would like to specify EBBR in an upcoming specification, so they need EBBR to be published and realistic. The Fedora and SuSE representatives are very supportive of that notion, because it gives them a path to support boards conforming to that spec. A few of us here had a quick meeting to work out how we could make that happen. Attendees: Alexander Graf (SuSE) Grant Likely (Arm) Bill Mills (TI) Peter Robinson (Red Hat/Fedora) Dong Wei (Arm) Yang Zhang (Linaro/96Boards) Notes: - We discussed the purpose & intent of EBBR - Is intended to document the basic requirements on firmware to implement a 'standard' boot path on embedded boards. - Needed by distros (Fedora, SuSE, Debian, etc) to support boards out of the box - Needed by OpenEmbedded, Yocto, etc to get away from custom platform specific hacks - Establishes a foundation for implementing SecureBoot, A/B updates, and other useful boot scenarios in a consistent way. - We expect the primary users of EBBR will be embedded & developer Arm boards using U-Boot firmware and Devicetree machine description - We expect a distribution will be able to use the same software (Distro Installer, Grub, Linux UEFI stub, Shim), and the same media (installer images) on both embedded and server platforms - We discussed what EBBR should contain - Will document interfaces and standards; not specific projects - Will specify a subset of the UEFI specification. - Boot services are in - Runtime services can be implemented with empty stubs - Need to work out what to do with runtime setting of variables - For the first release ("EBBR level 0"), it will track features available in upstream - In concrete terms this means EBBR can be implemented with upstream U-Boot or Tianocore. - Subsequent releases will refine the requirements as needed and as software improves - Expected target audience - embedded board vendors - Gives strong guidance on how to make a widely supported board - Linux distributions - Can make EBBR compliance a requirement for support - End users - EBBR will make it simpler to use embedded Arm boards because each board will not require special setup instructions or image formats - Roadmap - 96Boards wants to specify EBBR compliance in an upcoming spec to be announced at Linaro Connect in the fall (about 6 months time) - Need to have general agreement on the content of EBBR well before that (2-3 months?) - Need to have a final EBBR 1.0 release before the 96Boards spec announcement - Work items: - Transcode existing EBBR draft into text markup and check into Git repo - Review current EBBR draft and compare with available U-Boot functionality - Identify changes required to EBBR spec - Identify gaps in U-Boot functionality that can reasonably be ad Open Questions: - Can the EBBR document be drafted in public? (Dong to follow up internally at Arm) - Where do the Engineering resources come from to make EBBR a reality - General call for engineering effort to be committed by interested parties Actions: - Dong to have Arm internal discussion about moving EBBR draft process onto GitHub or similar - Markup candidate: Sphinx-doc with reStructuredText markup - Grant to organize a regular weekly meeting to track EBBR drafting process - Make sure to include Tom Rini and Ard Biesheuvel - Yang to socialize with 96Boards partners to prepare them for EBBR compliance - (Unassigned) Create a hosting page with issue tracker for EBBR -- TBD after Dong finishes internal due diligence on moving EBBR drafting to a public repository - Probably GitHub

7 years, 7 months

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