Okay, minutes from the last meeting are posted to the wiki, and the next meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, 3 hours earlier to accommodate Jean in China (0600MDT, 0800EDT, 1200UTC). Email me if you want to attend and I'll add you to the invite.
g.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Grant Likely grant.likely@secretlab.ca wrote:
Hi all,
here are the notes from today's meeting. Please look over it an make sure all of it is okay by you for posting on the public wiki. If there is anything sensitive that should not be published, then let me know right away so that I can edit it out.
Cheers, g.
Meeting notes from ARM Boot Architecture Meeting, June 23, 2011
https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/2011-06-23
== Attendees ==
Loïc Minier Grant Likely Olivier Martin Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD Jon Masters Andrew Pickard
== Minutes ==
* Need to think about what do we actually care about and write it down * Should be careful to consider non-Linux OSes * Want to get to a standard ARM platform
* Time to market also an important consideration
Notes on process:
- We are not a standards body - need to be agile and try to base on
existing standards
- We need to be congnisent of other operating systems and other architectures
Other Topics (maybe to put on the backburner): * How to we boot multiple CPUs of heterogeneous architectures * How does the boot architecture define how to start other CPUs, and other scenarii like kexec or virtualization? security / secure boot also impact the boot architecture subtly
Licensing: GPL might be a problem for some specific pieces of code, e.g. touching CPU initialization * Specifications should remain as abstract of the licensing as possible though * Eveything we discuss should be public and avaiable free of charge
Bootloader consolidation: we agree that there wont be consolidation on a single bootloader, instead a variety of bootloaders have to be supported
Skeleton of boot architecture plan at https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/ * Not clear whether we want to specify UI though
What's the output? * Standard? * Wiki page? web site? * Need to work dynamically in the beginning, then freeze a version 1 or something of the recommendations * Deliverable of some kind at the August Linaro meeting
Dealing with legacy? * Could provide old-world boot media chainloading into new-world boot architecture media * Hard to implement security architecture in this mode * Don't care about legacy beyond a point (why care with product lifecycles?)
Another output is one or more reference implementation(s) which can be deployed in production (be it UEFI, Barebox or whatever)
Need to make sure we document the things which are NOT covered in our outputs/documents
Should add definitions for terms; particuarly in the case of secure boot terminology.
Need to handle booting secondary "bootloaders" like GRUB. Need to handle bits beyond just kernel, including initramfs, and other data images that need to be loaded by the bootloader.
Power Management & PM handoff to the kernel.
Plan agenda ahead of calls and assign time slots
Suggest having a whole day/half day to advance (bootstrap!) this effort
Topics raised after meeting: Privacy: The goal is to have everything open and public, but anybody can request for a conversation on the mailing list to be kept private in the interest of open communication.
Minimal "run time" service type of interface for example to allow second stage bootloader to retrieve "files". However, this should not be massive overkill.
-- Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng. Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
On 11:37 Wed 29 Jun , Grant Likely wrote:
Okay, minutes from the last meeting are posted to the wiki, and the next meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, 3 hours earlier to accommodate Jean in China (0600MDT, 0800EDT, 1200UTC). Email me if you want to attend and I'll add you to the invite.
Thanks alot
If it's too early for some one 1300UTC or 1400UTC is ok for me after it's a bit late
Best Regards, J.
g.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Grant Likely grant.likely@secretlab.ca wrote:
Hi all,
here are the notes from today's meeting. Please look over it an make sure all of it is okay by you for posting on the public wiki. If there is anything sensitive that should not be published, then let me know right away so that I can edit it out.
Cheers, g.
Meeting notes from ARM Boot Architecture Meeting, June 23, 2011
https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/2011-06-23
== Attendees ==
Loïc Minier Grant Likely Olivier Martin Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD Jon Masters Andrew Pickard
== Minutes ==
* Need to think about what do we actually care about and write it down * Should be careful to consider non-Linux OSes * Want to get to a standard ARM platform
* Time to market also an important consideration
Notes on process:
- We are not a standards body - need to be agile and try to base on
existing standards
- We need to be congnisent of other operating systems and other architectures
Other Topics (maybe to put on the backburner): * How to we boot multiple CPUs of heterogeneous architectures * How does the boot architecture define how to start other CPUs, and other scenarii like kexec or virtualization? security / secure boot also impact the boot architecture subtly
Licensing: GPL might be a problem for some specific pieces of code, e.g. touching CPU initialization * Specifications should remain as abstract of the licensing as possible though * Eveything we discuss should be public and avaiable free of charge
Bootloader consolidation: we agree that there wont be consolidation on a single bootloader, instead a variety of bootloaders have to be supported
Skeleton of boot architecture plan at https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/ * Not clear whether we want to specify UI though
What's the output? * Standard? * Wiki page? web site? * Need to work dynamically in the beginning, then freeze a version 1 or something of the recommendations * Deliverable of some kind at the August Linaro meeting
Dealing with legacy? * Could provide old-world boot media chainloading into new-world boot architecture media * Hard to implement security architecture in this mode * Don't care about legacy beyond a point (why care with product lifecycles?)
Another output is one or more reference implementation(s) which can be deployed in production (be it UEFI, Barebox or whatever)
Need to make sure we document the things which are NOT covered in our outputs/documents
Should add definitions for terms; particuarly in the case of secure boot terminology.
Need to handle booting secondary "bootloaders" like GRUB. Need to handle bits beyond just kernel, including initramfs, and other data images that need to be loaded by the bootloader.
Power Management & PM handoff to the kernel.
Plan agenda ahead of calls and assign time slots
Suggest having a whole day/half day to advance (bootstrap!) this effort
Topics raised after meeting: Privacy: The goal is to have everything open and public, but anybody can request for a conversation on the mailing list to be kept private in the interest of open communication.
Minimal "run time" service type of interface for example to allow second stage bootloader to retrieve "files". However, this should not be massive overkill.
-- Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng. Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
-- Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng. Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
Hi Grant
Sorry I didn't make the last call, and it looks like I'll miss the next one as well.
Can you clarify which problems you're aiming to solve within this group? And who the solutions are for?
I am concerned that the group is trying to solve a problem that only Linaro has. Namely how do I create a generic system to manage boot over multiple boards with different boot loaders. I struggle to understand who else this would help?
Cheers Jason
-----Original Message----- From: boot-architecture-bounces@lists.linaro.org [mailto:boot-architecture-bounces@lists.linaro.org] On Behalf Of Grant Likely Sent: 29 June 2011 18:38 To: Loïc Minier; Olivier Martin; Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD; Jon Masters; Andrew Pickard; boot-architecture@lists.linaro.org Subject: Re: Minutes from Boot Architecture meeting today.
Okay, minutes from the last meeting are posted to the wiki, and the next meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, 3 hours earlier to accommodate Jean in China (0600MDT, 0800EDT, 1200UTC). Email me if you want to attend and I'll add you to the invite.
g.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Grant Likely grant.likely@secretlab.ca wrote:
Hi all,
here are the notes from today's meeting. Please look over it an make sure all of it is okay by you for posting on the public wiki. If there is anything sensitive that should not be published, then let me know right away so that I can edit it out.
Cheers, g.
Meeting notes from ARM Boot Architecture Meeting, June 23, 2011
https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/2011-06-23
== Attendees ==
Loïc Minier Grant Likely Olivier Martin Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD Jon Masters Andrew Pickard
== Minutes ==
Need to think about what do we actually care about and write it down
Should be careful to consider non-Linux OSes
Want to get to a standard ARM platform
Time to market also an important consideration
Notes on process:
- We are not a standards body - need to be agile and try to base on
existing standards
- We need to be congnisent of other operating systems and other architectures
Other Topics (maybe to put on the backburner):
- How to we boot multiple CPUs of heterogeneous architectures
- How does the boot architecture define how to start other CPUs, and
other scenarii like kexec or virtualization? security / secure boot also impact the boot architecture subtly
Licensing: GPL might be a problem for some specific pieces of code, e.g. touching CPU initialization
- Specifications should remain as abstract of the licensing as
possible though
- Eveything we discuss should be public and avaiable free of charge
Bootloader consolidation: we agree that there wont be consolidation on a single bootloader, instead a variety of bootloaders have to be supported
Skeleton of boot architecture plan at https://wiki.linaro.org/OfficeofCTO/BootArchitecture/
- Not clear whether we want to specify UI though
What's the output?
- Standard?
- Wiki page? web site?
- Need to work dynamically in the beginning, then freeze a version 1
or something of the recommendations
- Deliverable of some kind at the August Linaro meeting
Dealing with legacy?
- Could provide old-world boot media chainloading into new-world boot
architecture media
- Hard to implement security architecture in this mode
- Don't care about legacy beyond a point (why care with product lifecycles?)
Another output is one or more reference implementation(s) which can be deployed in production (be it UEFI, Barebox or whatever)
Need to make sure we document the things which are NOT covered in our outputs/documents
Should add definitions for terms; particuarly in the case of secure boot terminology.
Need to handle booting secondary "bootloaders" like GRUB. Need to handle bits beyond just kernel, including initramfs, and other data images that need to be loaded by the bootloader.
Power Management & PM handoff to the kernel.
Plan agenda ahead of calls and assign time slots
Suggest having a whole day/half day to advance (bootstrap!) this effort
Topics raised after meeting: Privacy: The goal is to have everything open and public, but anybody can request for a conversation on the mailing list to be kept private in the interest of open communication.
Minimal "run time" service type of interface for example to allow second stage bootloader to retrieve "files". However, this should not be massive overkill.
-- Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng. Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
-- Grant Likely, B.Sc., P.Eng. Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
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On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 11:32 +0100, Jason Parker wrote:
I am concerned that the group is trying to solve a problem that only Linaro has. Namely how do I create a generic system to manage boot over multiple boards with different boot loaders. I struggle to understand who else this would help?
Linux distributions like Fedora, and others, that want to generically target "ARM". We are not going to provide "the ARM kernel for board X". We are going to provide "the armv7 kernel", and it's going to be made to work with a generic boot infrastructure that we then reasonably expect a board to provide if it wants to use such an OS. Otherwise, it's just not possible to have a generic Linux distribution for ARM systems.
So, it's not a problem if Linux support will be confined to Android or the older "LSP" concept in which every board has a custom kernel, but that's not really a scalable solution that allows for generic support. It's really the same problem as "why have a PC platform" and not just various different kinds of x86-based boards with x86-compatible chips :)
Thanks,
Jon.
On Mon, 2011-07-11 at 15:04 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
So, it's not a problem if Linux support will be confined to Android or the older "LSP" concept in which every board has a custom kernel, but that's not really a scalable solution that allows for generic support. It's really the same problem as "why have a PC platform" and not just various different kinds of x86-based boards with x86-compatible chips :)
And to answer my own question :) The difference is billions of dollars and massive success in the marketplace once we have a common platform.
Thanks,
Jon.
boot-architecture@lists.linaro.org
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Grant Likely -
Jason Parker -
Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD -
Jon Masters