Hi there
A few questions--
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional? This is a concern, because these links contain the _only_ deliverables for certain platform and filesystem combinations. The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the wiki.
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like the list of known issues. Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location? I don't see how to get to it at present. A visitor won't know that they have to go to the wiki for this information.
c) The known issues list on the wiki release page doesn't seem include all the issues reported during testing. Will these get propagated, or is it the responsibility of testers to add the relevant information to the known issues list themselves?
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
Cheers ---Dave
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Fathi Boudra fathi.boudra@linaro.org wrote:
Hi,
The Linaro Team is pleased to announce the release of Linaro 11.08.
11.08 is the Linaro’s third release delivered on the new monthly cadence. Once again, this release includes components delivered by all Working Groups, Landing Teams and Platform Teams, bringing the best of Linaro Technology integrated on top of Android and Ubuntu based images.
In total this makes an impressive thirty components and two platform builds from all Linaro engineering teams in one shot. And again, most of this comes nicely integrated into Android and Ubuntu platform builds. This release made it again hard to select a handful of highlights from a list of roughly 80 deliverables that went into this release.
However, if we had to choose we would like to emphasize the update of linux-linaro to the 3.0.3 stable kernel including the merge of 3.1-rc1 core ARM updates, Linaro GCC 4.6 2011.08 release based on latest upstream version, and Linaro Cross Toolchain 2011.07 builds. In addition, the Android Team delivers the enablement of all of our primary boards, compiled with the Linaro 11.08 toolchain release based on GCC 4.6 and running Android 2.3.5.
We encourage everybody to use the 11.08 release. The download links for all images and components are available on our release page:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1108/Release
See the detailed highlights of this release to get a better overview of what was done by the individual teams. The release details are linked from the "Details" column for each release artifact on the release information:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1108/Release#Release_Information
Using the Android-based images
The Android-based images come in three parts: system, userdata and boot. These need to be combined to form a complete Android install. For an explanation of how to do this please see:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/Android/ImageInstallation
If you are interested in getting the source and building these images yourself please see the following pages:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/Android/GetSource http://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/Android/BuildSource
Using the Ubuntu-based images
The Ubuntu-based images consist of two parts. The first part is a hardware pack, which can be found under the hwpacks directory and contains hardware specific packages (such as the kernel and bootloader). The second part is the rootfs, which is combined with the hardware pack to create a complete image. For more information on how to create an image please see:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation
Getting involved
More information on Linaro can be found on our websites:
* Homepage: http://www.linaro.org * Wiki: http://wiki.linaro.org
Also subscribe to the important Linaro mailing lists and join our IRC channels to stay on top of Linaro developments:
* Announcements: http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-announce * Development: http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-dev * IRC: #linaro on irc.linaro.org or irc.freenode.net #linaro-android irc.linaro.org or irc.freenode.net
Known issues with this release
For any errata issues, please see:
http://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1108/Release#Known_Issues
Bug reports for this release should be filed in Launchpad against the individual packages that are affected. If a suitable package cannot be identified, feel free to assign them to:
http://www.launchpad.net/linaro
Cheers,
-- Fathi Boudra, on behalf of the Release Team Linaro Release Manager | Platform Project Manager Linaro.org | Open source software for ARM SoCs
linaro-announce mailing list linaro-announce@lists.linaro.org http://lists.linaro.org/mailman/listinfo/linaro-announce
Hi,
On 26 August 2011 12:18, Dave Martin dave.martin@linaro.org wrote:
Hi there
A few questions--
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional?
Yes, it is. We made the choice to promote only the officially supported builds on the downloads page. Developers and Community Builds (DCBs) are not officially supported.
This is a concern,because these links contain the _only_ deliverables for certain platform and filesystem combinations.
Thanks for raising your concern. I don't have a good answer yet. The website is being worked on and the goal is to get rid of the wiki release page, which is a convenient way to present the release and get the related information today. We'll see in which way the website could be improved to resolve your concern.
The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the wiki.
Really? It's clearly mentionned on the release announcement, posted on planet. Obviously, if somebody miss the announce and goes directly to the website downloads page, he won't get the DCBs. Is it your point?
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like the list of known issues.Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location?
It can probably be added to the block on the right. IMO the known issues are part of the release notes, I don't see them on the downloads page.
I don't see how to get to it at present. A visitor won't know that they have to go to the wiki for this information.
I think that the main problem here is that we use the release notes as the main portal for the release. In your use case, somebody using the website downloads page to get into Linaro won't get the release notes and will miss important information (DCBs, known issues, etc...).
c) The known issues list on the wiki release page doesn't seem include all the issues reported during testing. Will these get propagated, or is it the responsibility of testers to add the relevant information to the known issues list themselves?
The known issues list includes all the critical/high issues raised to the release team. It means that any individual need to subscribe linaro-release to the issue to have it under our radar. Also, I go through the testing reports to gather the known issues. Medium/low issues are skipped because the list could be quite long with the number of components we have.
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
I have the same concern. We have per board instructions: * on the forms used for testing. e.g. http://bit.ly/pFnQQh * on releases.l.o e.g. http://releases.linaro.org/platform/linaro-n/ubuntu/leb-panda/11.08/
IMO, the image installation should be board specific. The generic instructions are good but I would prefer to have the following workflow: 1. I have this board (identify board) 2. I need these images (identify images for the board) 3. Here's the correct step by step instructions to flash my board
Now, we need to the improve the image installation to achieve that...
Cheers ---Dave
On 11 Aug 26, Fathi Boudra wrote:
Hi,
On 26 August 2011 12:18, Dave Martin dave.martin@linaro.org wrote:
Hi there
A few questions--
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional?
Yes, it is. We made the choice to promote only the officially supported builds on the downloads page. Developers and Community Builds (DCBs) are not officially supported.
Developer images are probably the most used by kernel developers. Perhaps a link to a page listing all miscellaneous images would be useful for people walking off the street to check out Linaro aka. not subscribed to our mailing lists. You already have that section on the wiki release page.
<snip>
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
I have the same concern. We have per board instructions:
- on the forms used for testing. e.g. http://bit.ly/pFnQQh
- on releases.l.o e.g. http://releases.linaro.org/platform/linaro-n/ubuntu/leb-panda/11.08/
IMO, the image installation should be board specific. The generic instructions are good but I would prefer to have the following workflow:
- I have this board (identify board)
- I need these images (identify images for the board)
- Here's the correct step by step instructions to flash my board
Now, we need to the improve the image installation to achieve that...
Isn't Linaro-Media-Builder (fetch_image_ui.py) meant to remove the need for having so many different pages of instructions?
/Amit
On 26 August 2011 14:38, Amit Kucheria amit.kucheria@linaro.org wrote:
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional?
Yes, it is. We made the choice to promote only the officially supported builds on the downloads page. Developers and Community Builds (DCBs) are not officially supported.
Developer images are probably the most used by kernel developers. Perhaps a link to a page listing all miscellaneous images would be useful for people walking off the street to check out Linaro aka. not subscribed to our mailing lists. You already have that section on the wiki release page.
Asac reply covers this: the new download page will include the developer and community builds similar to the wiki page with a prominent warning.
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
I have the same concern. We have per board instructions: * on the forms used for testing. e.g. http://bit.ly/pFnQQh * on releases.l.o e.g. http://releases.linaro.org/platform/linaro-n/ubuntu/leb-panda/11.08/
IMO, the image installation should be board specific. The generic instructions are good but I would prefer to have the following workflow:
- I have this board (identify board)
- I need these images (identify images for the board)
- Here's the correct step by step instructions to flash my board
Now, we need to the improve the image installation to achieve that...
Isn't Linaro-Media-Builder (fetch_image_ui.py) meant to remove the need for having so many different pages of instructions?
It assumes you know l-m-b and know where/how to get it. At this point, you reached the step 3: step by step instructions to flash the board, including how to get the tools.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Fathi Boudra fathi.boudra@linaro.org wrote:
On 26 August 2011 14:38, Amit Kucheria amit.kucheria@linaro.org wrote:
I have the same concern. We have per board instructions: * on the forms used for testing. e.g. http://bit.ly/pFnQQh * on releases.l.o e.g. http://releases.linaro.org/platform/linaro-n/ubuntu/leb-panda/11.08/
IMO, the image installation should be board specific. The generic instructions are good but I would prefer to have the following workflow:
- I have this board (identify board)
- I need these images (identify images for the board)
- Here's the correct step by step instructions to flash my board
Now, we need to the improve the image installation to achieve that...
Isn't Linaro-Media-Builder (fetch_image_ui.py) meant to remove the need for having so many different pages of instructions?
It assumes you know l-m-b and know where/how to get it. At this point, you reached the step 3: step by step instructions to flash the board, including how to get the tools.
True. I guess we'll reach a day where all that would be need is a pointer to L-M-B. It's already looking really useful. :)
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Amit Kucheria amit.kucheria@linaro.orgwrote:
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Fathi Boudra fathi.boudra@linaro.org wrote:>
It assumes you know l-m-b and know where/how to get it. At this point, you reached the step 3: step by step instructions to flash the board, including how to get the tools.
True. I guess we'll reach a day where all that would be need is a pointer to L-M-B. It's already looking really useful. :)
That would be fantastic, indeed!!
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Fathi Boudra fathi.boudra@linaro.orgwrote:
Hi,
On 26 August 2011 12:18, Dave Martin dave.martin@linaro.org wrote:
Hi there
A few questions--
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional?
Yes, it is. We made the choice to promote only the officially supported builds on the downloads page. Developers and Community Builds (DCBs) are not officially supported.
the new download page will include the developer and community builds similar to the wiki page with a prominent warning. I anticipate that we get there in the next week or two.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Fathi Boudra fathi.boudra@linaro.orgwrote:
The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the
wiki.
Really? It's clearly mentionned on the release announcement, posted on planet. Obviously, if somebody miss the announce and goes directly to the website downloads page, he won't get the DCBs. Is it your point?
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like
the list of known issues.Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location?
It can probably be added to the block on the right. IMO the known issues are part of the release notes, I don't see them on the downloads page.
new download page will be more "release focussed" and as that will also link to the release announce wiki.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:18:18AM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional? This is a concern, because these links contain the _only_ deliverables for certain platform and filesystem combinations. The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the wiki.
It's not intentional, but we chose to keep them out for a bit to try and figure out how to keep the LEBs "special". But this time around, you can see them live:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/
I did mention today to Alexander that I would like to see the "Download for:" column cleaned up -- perhaps by moving the set to be split across rows, or something else visually smart.
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like the list of known issues. Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location? I don't see how to get to it at present. A visitor won't know that they have to go to the wiki for this information.
It's now linked, but I somehow feel that we should have these visible from the main download page. Perhaps as a set of tabs inside Downloads -- Downloads, Release Notes? Or Dave, do you think the way we have it now is good enough for the moment?
c) The known issues list on the wiki release page doesn't seem include all the issues reported during testing. Will these get propagated, or is it the responsibility of testers to add the relevant information to the known issues list themselves?
That's a good point. I may have missed a reply to this -- what's the plan?
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
That's sort of what I am saying with my comment above about cleaning up the "Download for:" column. Instead of stapling them all together, how about:
Nano Natty 11.08 <download link> TI Beagleboard <instructions> ARM Versatile <instructions> ST-Ericsson Snowball <instructions>
I realize the download link isn't exactly unique per-board and that we have no way of fixing that in the near term. But at least the design aboves is a step forward.
Finally, WTF is "Android Machine"? :-)
@dave, all
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ had received some lifting. It's still a work in progress but it should resolved some of the issue raised. Please, take a look. feedback is welcome.
On 7 September 2011 01:13, Christian Robottom Reis kiko@linaro.org wrote:
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:18:18AM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional? This is a concern, because these links contain the _only_ deliverables for certain platform and filesystem combinations. The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the wiki.
It's not intentional, but we chose to keep them out for a bit to try and figure out how to keep the LEBs "special". But this time around, you can see them live:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/
I did mention today to Alexander that I would like to see the "Download for:" column cleaned up -- perhaps by moving the set to be split across rows, or something else visually smart.
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like the list of known issues. Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location? I don't see how to get to it at present. A visitor won't know that they have to go to the wiki for this information.
It's now linked, but I somehow feel that we should have these visible from the main download page. Perhaps as a set of tabs inside Downloads -- Downloads, Release Notes? Or Dave, do you think the way we have it now is good enough for the moment?
c) The known issues list on the wiki release page doesn't seem include all the issues reported during testing. Will these get propagated, or is it the responsibility of testers to add the relevant information to the known issues list themselves?
That's a good point. I may have missed a reply to this -- what's the plan?
There isn't any plan. I replied in a previous mail what's the process to escalate a bug to the known issues list. In addition, we added the following link on the downloads website: "Full details of this release, including detailed release highlights and known issues, can be found on the release pages of our Wiki."
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
That's sort of what I am saying with my comment above about cleaning up the "Download for:" column. Instead of stapling them all together, how about:
Nano Natty 11.08 <download link> TI Beagleboard <instructions> ARM Versatile <instructions> ST-Ericsson Snowball <instructions>
I realize the download link isn't exactly unique per-board and that we have no way of fixing that in the near term. But at least the design aboves is a step forward.
Finally, WTF is "Android Machine"? :-)
Christian Robottom Reis, Engineering VP Brazil (GMT-3) | [+55] 16 9112 6430 | [+1] 612 216 4935 Linaro.org: Open Source Software for ARM SoCs
On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 08:53:06AM +0300, Fathi Boudra wrote:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ had received some lifting. It's still a work in progress but it should resolved some of the issue raised. Please, take a look. feedback is welcome.
I know. The feedback I gave below was from the updated page, so it applies right now. ;-)
Finally, can we please not have a dead "Select a release..." menuitem? It's trivial to leave selected in the menu the release currently being displayed.
On 7 September 2011 01:13, Christian Robottom Reis kiko@linaro.org wrote:
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:18:18AM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
a) Is the omission of the "Developers and Community Builds" links from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ intentional? This is a concern, because these links contain the _only_ deliverables for certain platform and filesystem combinations. The wiki release page itself is not easily findable without going to the wiki.
It's not intentional, but we chose to keep them out for a bit to try and figure out how to keep the LEBs "special". But this time around, you can see them live:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/
I did mention today to Alexander that I would like to see the "Download for:" column cleaned up -- perhaps by moving the set to be split across rows, or something else visually smart.
b) The release page on the wiki contains important information like the list of known issues. Shouldn't this page be linked from http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ or some other prominent location? I don't see how to get to it at present. A visitor won't know that they have to go to the wiki for this information.
It's now linked, but I somehow feel that we should have these visible from the main download page. Perhaps as a set of tabs inside Downloads -- Downloads, Release Notes? Or Dave, do you think the way we have it now is good enough for the moment?
c) The known issues list on the wiki release page doesn't seem include all the issues reported during testing. Will these get propagated, or is it the responsibility of testers to add the relevant information to the known issues list themselves?
That's a good point. I may have missed a reply to this -- what's the plan?
There isn't any plan. I replied in a previous mail what's the process to escalate a bug to the known issues list. In addition, we added the following link on the downloads website: "Full details of this release, including detailed release highlights and known issues, can be found on the release pages of our Wiki."
d) For vexpress specifically, there is no link from the release pages or downloads to the specific installation instructions applicable to this board. Even I find these difficult to find without bookmarking. Because that information is very board-specific, I don't think it needs to be included on https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/Ubuntu/ImageInstallation -- but can we at least have a link on there pointing to the appropriate page?
That's sort of what I am saying with my comment above about cleaning up the "Download for:" column. Instead of stapling them all together, how about:
Nano Natty 11.08 <download link> TI Beagleboard <instructions> ARM Versatile <instructions> ST-Ericsson Snowball <instructions>
I realize the download link isn't exactly unique per-board and that we have no way of fixing that in the near term. But at least the design aboves is a step forward.
Finally, WTF is "Android Machine"? :-)
Christian Robottom Reis, Engineering VP Brazil (GMT-3) | [+55] 16 9112 6430 | [+1] 612 216 4935 Linaro.org: Open Source Software for ARM SoCs
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Christian Robottom Reis kiko@linaro.orgwrote:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 08:53:06AM +0300, Fathi Boudra wrote:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ had received some lifting. It's still a
work
in progress but it should resolved some of the issue raised. Please, take
a
look. feedback is welcome.
I know. The feedback I gave below was from the updated page, so it applies right now. ;-)
Finally, can we please not have a dead "Select a release..." menuitem? It's trivial to leave selected in the menu the release currently being displayed.
kiko: all the input provided to me has been forwarded and is being worked on -- including this.
fabo: should we update the blueprint or add a new one to reflect the initial improvements we agreed with ian?
On 8 September 2011 14:24, Alexander Sack asac@linaro.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Christian Robottom Reis kiko@linaro.org wrote:
On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 08:53:06AM +0300, Fathi Boudra wrote:
http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ had received some lifting. It's still a work in progress but it should resolved some of the issue raised. Please, take a look. feedback is welcome.
I know. The feedback I gave below was from the updated page, so it applies right now. ;-)
Finally, can we please not have a dead "Select a release..." menuitem? It's trivial to leave selected in the menu the release currently being displayed.
kiko: all the input provided to me has been forwarded and is being worked on -- including this.
fabo: should we update the blueprint or add a new one to reflect the initial improvements we agreed with ian?
I'm going to update the current blueprint. It's on my todo for today.
Cheers,
Fathi
On 7 September 2011 01:13, Christian Robottom Reis kiko@linaro.org wrote:
Finally, WTF is "Android Machine"? :-)
It should be Android Mainline. fixed now.
-
Alexander Sack -
Amit Kucheria -
Christian Robottom Reis -
Dave Martin -
Fathi Boudra